Another C3 situation

[thebeathunters]

hi jens and bonsoir rasmus!

first, much props to you jens for "recreating" this beautiful grey machine from scratch - or crash. it sure gives me some hope...

funny to read about this problem tonight as i'm just running into a similar (tough less "spectacular") situation with a black c3 i received in bad shape from ebay/italy yesterday.
ok, i already hear you guys saying: italy? what did you expect?
boo-hoo: that's not fair!

well, the seller seemed pretty serious-though when i questioned him lately about delayed shipping, he replied:
"You forget just one thing:
WE are in ITALY. Please think twice about."


no dhl or hermes involved here but good ol' postal services from italy and france...
of course the postman advised me i'd better raise hell about it, which i will first thing tomorrow morning and so will the seller (who insured the package), hopefully...
as a regular ebay-seller, he seems quite concerned (yeah, right...)


i can hold against him that the cardboard box was too thin to start with. so he tried to make up for it with strong foam inside but the C3 was obviously too loosely restrained. actually, it arrived with no apparent crack or damage but shit happened when i plugged it in, as some kind of noise started, some buzz that gets louder when i played a tape (at least it plays). tray is working and all functions seem ok (i haven't tried to record yet) but that noise means trouble, doesn't it?

so, considering the facts - and before i open the "coffin" if you guys have any idea about that noise and where to start with, it will be highly appreciated.

cordially, phil

[Rasmus]

Hi Phil.
Yeah, unfortunately italian e-Bay sellers often do not have the best reputation.
Furthermore it's getting increasingly more difficult to find reliable Cargo Companies.

As to the buzzing noise your C3 does produce, it does depend on, first of all, whether you are a technican and are able to carry out reseach and repair yourself, or not. In case you are technically inclined your best bet would be to adress Forum member Uli who is the mayor technical crack here ( though I do not know his language skills regarding english or french), or should you... like me... be not an engineering genius you better hand the device over to an professional technician like "braunberni" (http://www.braunberni.de/). However you do have to consider whether that's worth the financial expenditure or not. It certainly comes down to the question how much you have spent for the C3 in the first place and what it's current market value is.
Having said that, knowing how hard it is to obtain Braun HiFi devices in France it may be worth while after all, even though you may spend more than you would do by browsing e-Bay Germany, where many sellers are either unwilling to post these devices abroad, or only with a heavy additional cargo fee attached.
Bye bye
Rasmus

[Jens]

Hi Phil,

sorry for my delayed answer as I was occupied by business trip. First of all my concratulation for purchasing a C3 and my sympathy for the bad condition it suffers during transportation.
The shipping condition sounds like a known pattern for me as my C3 was lousely protected in the package too.

The problem is that you need to check all C3 functions before you decide for the next step. In my case the damage was obvious as some function worked out and other not. It was easy for me to anticipate that some connection within the electrical circuits are disconnected. It sounds mechanical.

As Rasmus already mentioned you need some technical experience to isolate the problem. In my case the buzz which remained after my repair finalisation took me more than a hour. It was a long lasting procedure of mount- and dismounting components and not a genius moment of pure knowledge to solve the problem.

Uli is a talent among us to repair, refurbish and to set up Atelier components. Even though there are some technicians members inclusive our moderator Norbert who have certain experience, you might decide for professional support. In my own case I decided to check in regards to my own experience as I am a photo engineer with some basic education to deal with analogue electric circuits and broadcasting technique. Some time it work out the other not.

All in all it is a question how much money you like to invest to get the really good C3 working. If the Budget is limited or you don’t like a machine which resist your good efforts you might be brave and open the box...

In any case please keep us updated concerning your next steps. Maybe it is a nice story for our Forum too...

Best ones from Jens

[thebeathunters]

Thanks Jens for your support. and congratulations again for the fantastic job you did!

since the other day it seems like the situation evolved for the worse, as the C3 doesn't seem to record either...
i briefly considered sending it back to the seller and pray to get the insurance money but it probably will leave me with nothing: the c3 will be gone and the post office will probably declares it was the sender's responsability to secure a better package - which is a reality.
as a proof of good intentions - or to add insult to injury- the guy offered to send me 20 € for compensation...
how come it doesn't make me feel any better?

that leaves me between a rock and a hard place in terms of actions, as my technical skills are less than limited. "technically-challenged" would be the proper description!
of course i'll have to rely on a professional. thru a french vintage forum i met a competent guy who repairs hi-fi but he's quite skeptical about cassette machines and doesn't know much about braun. i frankly fear to cause more damages if i open that box myself but maybe i will, and try to document this "journey into the unknown"...
stay gold
phil

[Jens]

Hi Phil,

sorry to hear that the things are worsening up. One point took my attention. You wrote that the Rec function is out of order and doesn't work.
Is anything else affected e.g. Slider illumination, Slider motor or Dolby function? The point is that the velocity impacting your C3 might have suffered during the transportation is able to cause internal damages.

To make sure that the main amplifier PCB is not affected it might be a managable task to dismount the bottom plate of your tape if you turn the C3 upside down. There are a couple of Screws which need to be removed to enable you taking a look inside. You will have direct view to the Main PCB. You only need to check the four fixation points of the main amplifier PCB to the C3 metal frame.

Please have a look to the picuture below:



The red encircled areas are under interest. If you find any sign of a crack in the circuit board you are in trouble. If so call me.

It is of coarse up to you to open the bottum plate but I think the risk to further worsen the situation will be minimal.

Please disconnect the AC plug before starting any action to unplug the bottom plate. Don't touch the PCB if possible. It is only a chance to isolate the problem. Opening the bottom plate might be usefull if some of the discribed functions from the C3 are off.

Best ones from Jens

[Paparierer]

Dear Phil, I encountered a similar problem which I described in another thread. (See Atelier - C3 for that.) A lot of times the cassette recorders are opened and the black piece of plastic - where you place the mc in - is removed. When it's put back in position people forget to run the recording sensor (a tiny black piece of plastic glued to a tiny stripe of copper) in the hole back left of the cassette bay. By doing this they bend one piece of the sensor down and it just can't work. The sensor works like this: The cassette pushes the plastic "beak" back, the copper stripe bends back, too and closes the circuit by touching another copper stripe behind it. I'll mail a photo or a part of the technical information sheet either later tonight or tomorrow.
In my case I just took forceps (a pair of tweezers) and bend it back in position before replacing the cassette bay (AND NOT forgetting to watch out for the sensor!) .

Yours, Gereon

[Paparierer]

So, hier ist ein kleiner Übersichtsplan:



...es ist echt ärgerlich, wenn die "Verschlimmbesserer" das Kasettenfach einfach wieder draufknallen (und am Besten mit dem Akkuschrauber wieder festzurren...), ohne den Sensorzacken durchzufädeln.
Da scheint die Haltung: "Wozu soll ich mir darüber den Kopf zerbrechen, es hört doch eh keiner mehr MC, das Ding soll doch nur schön aussehen!" wirklich voll durchzuschlagen.

Gruß, Gereon

[thebeathunters]

hi jens, ji gereon
thanks for your support and your help, it's really kind of you and means a lot.
about your remarks:
actually, the light on the tray is still on and the speed -play/ff/rew-seems unaffected.
the red dot lights up when recording is on and the monitor shows some activity/volume input but nothing gets recorded on tape...
the procedure you're showing on picture seems in my league so i'll give it a try and post a picture of the inside.
of course i'll look at the C3 post - can't say i'll read it as i speak very little german but i'll do my best with a little help of google's poetic translation.
cheers

[Paparierer]

Hi Phil,
got a little bit carried away writing German in my last post with the picture. It's basically about people who "worsimprove" electronic equipment by not knowing what they do or just ignore the damage they are creating by doing a sloppy job knowingly(!).
There are TWO sensors right there in a C3's cassette bay: One for recording protection and the other for automatic tape type selection. But that'll most probably not your problem, as the recording light is on... Still: Keep calm and ask. There are some wizards on board this forum who seem to belong from the movie "The six million dollar man": We have the technology, we can rebuild him!

Have a nice day!
Gereon

[thebeathunters]

thanks again for keeping me posted. i'll try my best this weekend!
phil

[Paparierer]

Hi Phil,
[...]There are TWO sensors right there in a C3's cassette bay: One for recording protection and the other for automatic tape type selection. [...]
Gereon

Sorry, got it wrong: As you can see it's a C4 in the picture - the C3 has a record protection sensor only.
Yours, Gereon

[thebeathunters]

hi everybody
finally back on planet braun after some family issues...
i had the opportunity to have the c3 checked by a pro and things improved: no more strange sound on power and recording function is back to normal!
however, he noticed that the left channel is somehow lower and muffled (deafer) due probably to a tired head (it still happened after demagnitizing it).
he's not a big fan of cassette-decks anyway and lacks time to dive deeper into it... so i guess i'll have to deal with it myself
i definitely will need your help to find a new head and very clear instructions to replace it. if there's a thread about it, thanks to keep me posted
keep on groovin'
phil

[Jens]

HI Phil,

good to know that things improving with your C3. I checked my inventory of the second C3 I bought months ago but the head was already dismounted by the former owner. Probably somebody else is able to support you. Good luck.

Best ones from Jens

[thebeathunters]

hi Jens and thanks for checking your backyard
yeah, hopefully i'll get lucky
cheers
phil

[thebeathunters]

hi everybody

got my c3 back yesterday from my friend's workshop.
he cleaned it, checked and demagnetized the heads, witnessed no significant noises and got the record function back.
so i felt rather confident when i turned it on, then the buzz started again and slightly louder on play... damn!
after a few minutes of playing the miracle occured: total silence from the machine except what i consider a very normal buzz when i put my ear on the top...

so i guess like for most of us, this machine needs a little warm-up to give its best...
cheers
phil

[Jens]

Hi Phil,

congratulation! I'll cross my fingers that the buzz will stay out. Have fun with your C3!

Best ones from Jens

[thebeathunters]

hi
thanks everybody for your help
i finally sold my c3 and will probably regret it someday...
in the meantime, keep on groovin'!
phil

[Jens]

Hi Phil,

you're welcome. Best luck with your new gadget (TCG 450)... .

Jens